How Devout Was Dr. Ergun Caner?

There has been a lot of discussion about Dr. Ergun Caner whether he was brought up a Muslim. He claims to have grown up as a devout Sunni Muslim yet people now doubt his testimony especially because recent court documents show his mother had primary custody of him and his brothers after his parents’ divorce was finalized in 1978. Many have questioned how she could rear him as Muslim when she had objected to their upbringing as Muslims in court documents.

Muslims and non-Muslims have wondered if she was ever a Muslim. Some have raised doubts if Mr. Caner were such a devout Muslim man, how he could marry a non-Muslim. It is worth exploring some of these assertions lest we fall victims to speculations and generalizations. Just so you know, even if she wasn’t a convert to Islam, it would be perfectly fine for a devout Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman because the Qur’an allows it in Surah 5:5. Prophet Muhammad himself had a child by a Christian woman. His son Ibrahim was by a lady commonly referred to as Mary the Copt. Therefore, it is ridiculous for anyone to claim that Dr. Caner’s father was not a devout Muslim because he married a “non-Muslim.”

Court documents show that his mother consented to Islamic education and only objected and a ruling was made in her favor in 1978 when Dr. Caner was almost 12 years old. Some madrassa students have the entire Qur’an memorized around that age. The final ruling in 1979 answers two prevailing questions. The first is whether Dr. Caner had attended madrassa and the second question is whether his mother was a Muslim. You can find the first answer on page “3” of the final ruling which states, “…the trial court erred in failing to make specific conclusions of law as to the constitutionality of an order requiring defendant-appellant’s children to continue their instruction and practice of the Islamic faith.” [Emphasis mine.] This is proof that Dr. Caner attended madrassa until he was at least 12 years old. If he didn’t, why is there “continue” in regards to Islamic education in this legal document that bears multiple signatures? The onus is on those who make it an issue. Page “4” of the same document states, “The trial court’s denial of the plaintiff’s motion to require the children to be raised in the Islamic faith by their mother.” [Emphasis mine.] This proves that Dr. Caner’s mother was a Muslim even when she was going through the divorce proceedings, because Mr. Caner asked the court if she could raise the children as Muslims.

Some have wondered how the Caner Brothers could get madrassa education when they were with their father only every other weekend and on some holidays. Most countries where Muslims are in the minority have madrassa on Saturdays and Sundays, especially where the children attend secular schools Monday to Friday. It is possible that the mosque—it doesn’t have to have a minaret to qualify for a mosque—that the Caners attended had a part-time madrassa teacher—one who also had a day job. That is not uncommon even these days in the United States.

Muslims have a penchant to dismiss ex-Muslims. They do not accept any explanation given. They label converts as “fake ex-Muslims” regardless of how young or old they were when they apostatized. At what age does a Muslim become devout? Prophet Muhammad said, “Command a boy to pray when he reaches the age of seven years. When he becomes ten years old, then beat him for prayer.” Why would a ten-year old be beaten for something that he was instructed to do for three years? Aisha married Prophet Muhammad at the age of six. She was a devout Muslim and old enough to marry Allah’s Prophet and was even a prominent figure in Islam. This youngin’ is credited with narrating 2210 aHadith. Muslims defend her marriage and also her account in the Hadith. Who has heard of a three-year-old devout Muslim girl who knows about the Hadith, especially the part about the Jewish woman who poisoned Prophet Muhammad? She is being referred to as a “devout Muslim” in the video only at the age of three. Why would anyone doubt that Dr. Caner was a devout Muslim at the age of 12? It is apparent that age matters in Islam only when the situation does not favor Allah’s religion.

Some have questioned how it could even be possible for Dr. Caner to be raised as a Muslim when his mother became “a hippy” upon moving to America. When did becoming a liberal make a Muslim a non-Muslim? Miss Michigan 2010, Rima Fakih, has just been crowned Miss America 2010. She became the first Muslim woman to win the beauty pageant. The Associated Press reports, “Fakih took top honors at the pageant at the Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino on the Las Vegas Strip after strutting confidently in an orange and gold bikini, wearing a strapless white gown that resembled a wedding dress and saying health insurance should cover birth control pills.” I never thought I would write on a beauty pageant but here we are. She wasn’t wearing a burkini. Her stance on birth control pills is against Islamic teachings. A Muslim woman, yet she espouses these unorthodox views. No Muslim has publicly decried her liberalism. In fact, even her native hometown in Lebanon is proud of her accomplishments. The AFP reports, “We are so often described as terrorists and killers, but we Shiites love life and beauty—and mainly the beauty of the soul, which is what is so special about Rima.” She wins a pageant, which by even some non-Muslims’ standards is nefarious, and yet Muslims are proud of their fellow “hip” Muslim.

A fortnight ago the US State Department sent “America’s first Muslim country singer on Middle East tour.” How conservative is Kareem Salama? I bet he is hip enough because austere Islamic teachings ban music. Even the Council of America Muslim Relations, a Muslim civil rights organization, could not resist sending out a press release about this momentous feat. I have not heard any news reports about demonstrations after Friday prayers in Bahrain and Morocco decrying this tour. Here we are labeling the Caner Brothers as either “fake ex-Muslims” or “fake ex-devout Muslims” because their mother was liberal.

These two examples of liberal Muslims show just how far some Muslims in the West have come and some have realized that austere Islamic teachings are incompatible with Western standards. They are even calling for reform within Islam. Is it possible Dr. Caner’s mother felt the same about Islam? I doubt these other Muslims send their children to madrassa.

Some also have wondered how Dr. Caner, growing up a Sunni Muslim, “could attend a Shiite Muslim Youth group.” This doesn’t surprise me because the palpable animosity between Sunnis and Shiites is evident only in countries where one group has authority over the other. Muslims are happy to meet fellow Muslims in a foreign country. I had a friend in college who was from Pakistan. K was from the Ahmadiyya sect, a sect whose teachings are considered bid’ah (unwarranted innovations) in Sunni Pakistan. This group suffers great persecutions. Some are killed. Sunni students in college were friends with K. I did not notice them arguing over their sects’ differences in a foreign country. That was perhaps the case in Columbus where Sunnis and Shiites held joint youth groups.

There is a lot of information to process in this case. Some Christians and Muslims have erred in their “fake ex-devout Muslim” and “fake ex-Muslim” accusations respectively when referring to Dr. Caner, because they failed to analyze the opposing evidence. Any careful analysis of facts would lead to a conclusion that Dr. Caner was brought up a devout Muslim.

  • Pingback: James White and his “Reformed” Efforts Examined | Cracks in the Crescent

  • Christian

    I am not so certain that there is documentation to support a madrassa education. An online document from 2006 suggests that the Islamic Foundation of Central Ohio (the Caner family mosque) has operated a weekend Islamic school for “over 20 years.” They offer two hours of instruction on Sundays. Moving back twenty years lands on 1986–four years after the date Caner generally gives as the date of his conversion. Even a liberal interpretation of what “over twenty” means, and allowing two hours weekend instruction to constitute a madrassa education, we are looking at very little quite late in Caner’s childhood.

    Whatever it was that the Caners’ father went to court to force (unsuccessfully) their mother to provide, it is hard to call it by the name of madrassa, because there simply was none in Columbus, Ohio at that time.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Thank you for enjoying engaging me in your discussions. Unfortunatly, since you still want to defend that person, there is nothing I can do for you. But I would like you to make clear ONE thing, for me and for the readers : Is Dr Caner a BIG liar that just repented as some pastors told you? or Is he an honest man that we have unfairly been accusing? Please make it clear at once, because it’s only you here who is defending anything that you think it can discredit Islam at the expense of the truth.

  • Bennett Willis A link to a part of an interview done in the Turkish language. It clarifies some things.

    • Hussein

      Mr. Willis,

      Thank you for the link to the interview that was done in Turkish language. I have a friend who is fluent in Turkish. Agshin has also translated it and I will compare it with yours once I receive it. Thank you again!

  • Zayd

    Dear Salman,
    Could you please clarify to me what points of my arguments you find hostile?
    You said : “I’m sure there are other ex-Muslim Christians who can do a better job of presenting their faith without having to lie.”. You missed the point my friend. These people (Dr Caner and the author of this blog) are not concerned at all about presenting their Christian faith. I would have respected them if that was the case. ALL they want is to discredit Islam by all means, including lies. Why? Because they are scared of how many people embrace it every single day.
    If, after watching the video I just posted (which is a simple example), you still want to defend that big liar, there is nothing I can do for you.

  • Salman

    Brother Hussain,
    I can’t defend the hostile attitude of Zayd Benaboud, but I am amazed that you are still trying to defend Ergun Caner. Really, like I said before, whether he was devout or not, the bottomline is that he is not knowledgeable enough about Islam to be an authority on it, as he claims. On top of that it appears that he has been lying to everyone about this over and over again!

    And if you think this is some conspiracy to defame him, look at that comment on jihadwatch from 2004!!!! Even in 2004 people had noticed how fake he was!

    Ergun Caner is really an embarrassment to Christianity and you would be doing it a favor by stop trying to defend him. I’m sure are there are other ex-Muslim Christians who can do a better job of presenting their faith without having to lie.

    • Hussein


      Thank you for your comment! Zayd and I have never met but we know each other from our discussions online. He does not offend me in any way. If I can name one Muslim who defends Islam even at the expense of the truth in Islam, Zayd fits that bill :-) I have no problem with him and there were times when he was very belligerent and I kindly asked him to tone it down. I enjoy engaging him.

      As for my defense of Dr. Ergun Caner, as long some Christians and Muslims label him as a “fake ex-devout Muslim” and “fake ex-Muslim” respectively, I will continue defending him. I have one final article and then will move on unless something comes up. Some pastors have told me he has repented of his sins and that is enough for me. I am not God to know his heart and only time will tell. Thank you again for your contribution to this discussion.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    I remember you said Dr Caner is not supposed to speak Arabic to be a devout Muslim. Well, I think he does, and very well. Check yourself : ;-)

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Oh waw. Then go ahead now and teach your friend Dr Caner the new things you’ve learned, and let’s hope he will stop doing his ridiculous errors ;-)

  • Pingback: Contact Sports :

  • Zayd Benaboud

    This morning May 27, 2010 at 5:49 am you wrote …
    “As for what is recited in a baby’s ear when a baby is born in Islam, I was not married and did not have children nor was I present during deliveries due to cultural practices, hence I was not familiar with the answer. Reciting the Adan when the baby is born was not practiced in my Orma tribe, which was 100 percent Muslim. I DID NOT KNOW and you have a problem with that.”
    After 4 hours, and exactly at 9:52 am of the same day you started quoting aHadiths, analizing the situation and criticizing the practices. Don’t tell me you attended a Madrassa during those 4 hours and became an expert on the matter ;-)

    • Hussein

      Zayd, when I said, “I DID NOT KNOW [emphasis yours] and you have a problem with that,” I was referring to when I appeared on the interview about a month ago. The interview took place in April and aired a few weeks later. Anyone who reads the comments sees what I was referring to and nice try. Of course I read the Hadith after the interview :-)

  • Zayd Benaboud

    You’re so funny Hussein ;-) You just heard for the first time this morning about the “adhan story” and you’re already analyzing, judging and criticizing. Getting knowledge about a great sience such as Islam needs A LOT more than googling Islamic terms. this is what you are not able to understand.

    • Hussein

      Zayd, my article (written last week) clearly shows that I knew of Prophet Muhammad’s son Ibrahim’s birth and death prior to your bringing my error about the “adhan story” to my “attention” this morning. Go ahead and dismiss what I write as “googling Islamic terms.” God knows best.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    I would like however to have my questions answered clearly and directly, if you don’t mind.
    Anyone who would read your last three article would see how BLINDLY you try to defend Dr Caner.
    I didn’t say fasting can not be called Ramadan in your tribe. I’ve never been in Kenya. Why do you keep making me say what i didn’t. My question was clear : In which tribe or country on earth is fasting called “SWAN”? Just curiousity.
    For your information, whispering the adhan and the iqama in the baby’s ears is not a cultural practice. It’s a mandatory sunnah. Because when a Muslim dies, there will be a “salat” which is called “salat al-janazah”. For this salat, there will be no adhan and no iqamah. they have already been performed when he was born. So, please know my friend that this is a very important practice in a Muslim’s life. It is a practice that makes his entire life an Islamic way of life. That’s why I asked you to look for knowledge in the original sources instead of your anti-Islam websites.
    As for your prononciation of Arabic, it really needs a lot of work. You started by wrongly pronouncing even the chapter’s name الاكلاس instead of الاخلاص .

    • Hussein

      Zayd, I have no idea what “SWAN” means.
      You claim that “whispering the adhan and the iqama in the baby’s ears is not a cultural practice. It’s a mandatory sunnah.” Adhan was invented about a decade after the advent of Islam. Are you telling me when Aisha was born her father Abu Bakr whispered the adhan and the iqama into her ears? By the way, as far as I can tell from the Hadith, only when Prophet Muhammad’s son Ibrahim was born was Adhan and iqama whispered into babies’ ears and it was after Ibrahim’s death was the guidelines for the funeral prayer sans adhan and iqama instituted about 632 A.D. Sahih Muslim also shows it is the responsibility of the father to whisper. I was not a father and you expect me to know responsibilities of a Muslim father. Some Muslims don’t even accept the Hadith and Sunnah—the basis for Sunnah—because of their contradictory nature and you claim that this practice is “a mandatory sunnah.” Oh my!
      Thanks for evaluating my Arabic :-) I should spruce it up at your language school.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    I wish the Caner Brothers have effectively attended a Madrassa. They would have at least been able to correctly recite the FIRST verse of the Qur’an. I think that I explained enough that even attending a Madrassa does not qualify for ANYTHING except for having memorized the Qur’an (not always though).

    As for Safi’s article, I think that Safi himself had largely answered your questions, but you kept repeting the same things everytime until he stoped commenting.

    I listened to your Radio interview and YES, you have defended EVERY lie they had said, and these are my proofs :
    - Dr Caner had quoted a specific Hadith of the prophet’s birth where once he’s compared to a camel and in another show compared to a lion. You said that there is no problem with that. Could you tell us the references of the two aHadiths?
    - Dr Caner had called “SWAN” what all Muslims refer to as “As-Sawm”, which is for “fasting” that is one of the five pillars of Islam. You said that it’s not a problem since many other Muslims from some countries have different names for some important Islamic terms. Could you please tell us in which country is fasting called “SWAN”?
    - Dr Caner had refered to Ramadan as a 40 days month. First you said that even Muhammad Khan, when trying to correct Dr Caner, said it’s a 31 days month while it’s never more than 30. Does this change anything about Dr Caner’s ignorance of the number of days he is supposed to have been fasting when he was a “DEVOUT” Muslim? Then you said that it may be about Ramadan + 10 days of Dhu-l-Hijja. What does Dhu-l-Hijja has to do in here? It’s a different month and has its own name. It’s simply Dhu-l-Hijja and not Ramadan. And are you able to quote a single verse or Hadith that mentions these two months together? Or maybe Dr Caner is talking about a different religion where he was asked to fast 40 days a year? After that you said that in your tribe for example, any fasting is called Ramadan. Well that’s nice. So maybe your Ramadan for example is 60 days. That will make you even more ex-devout Muslim than him, and may even help you to get the presidency of Liberty University someday ;-)

    So since you don’t master the Arabic language and you don’t consider yourself an Islamic expert, why don’t you stop teaching people something that you don’t understand. I bet you could have never been able to talk about Medicine for example, write books on it, give talks on it, create blogs and start teaching people Medicine theories and practices.

    I really laughed a lot when you said on your interview that you’re not familiar with what is whispered in the Muslim baby’s ears upon birth. It’s like if a “devout” Christian says he’s not familiar with “baptism” ;-)

    • Hussein

      Zayd, I am finishing up an article that answers your questions. Just so you know, I am not here to defend Dr. Caner or his speeches but clearing up some confusion. Yes, I have said that Muslims call Ramadhan the month or fasting in the radio interview. You seem to have a problem with that and that is a perfect example of how you are selective just like Mr. Khan. You only focus on Islam as practiced where you have been or with Muslims using the Arabic terms. It is different for majority of Muslims and you seem to ignore that.
      As for what is recited in a baby’s ear when a baby is born in Islam, I was not married and did not have children nor was I present during deliveries due to cultural practices, hence I was not familiar with the answer. Reciting the Adan when the baby is born was not practiced in my Orma tribe, which was 100 percent Muslim. I did not know and you have a problem with that. (What do you think of my pronunciation of Arabic words since you are a teacher in Arabic? Did I pass or fail or kill them altogether? :-) ) Remember, I appeared on that podcast as a Christian of Muslim background and not as an expert on Islam.
      As for Prophet Muhammad’s behavior when he was receiving revelations, I gave a reference and you selectively listened :-)
      Let the readers decide for themselves on Safi’s article. It would not take them long to notice who was taking the Qur’an out of its context to drive their point home :-)

  • Zayd Benaboud

    The issue at hand is not whether the Caner Brothers were Muslims or not. The issue is whether they were DEVOUT Muslims as THEY claimed or not. And the answer is that they are BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG liars that no one can ever trust. That was the story. The new story now is why you are trying so hard and so desperatly to defend an “undefendable” case? We would like you to answer this question.

    I NEVER said you never went to a Madrassa. A Madrassa is a Qur’anic school where children go to memorize the Qur’an, thing that Dr Caner for example should have NEVER done, since he’s not able to recite the Quran’s FIRST verse that EVERY normal Muslim that NEVER went to a Madrassa recites at least 17 times A DAY. Now, having gone to a Madrassa doesn’t qualify for ANYTHING except for having memorized the Qur’an, and having memorized the Qur’an doesn’t mean that you understand Arabic or that you are a scholar in Islamic Studies. And if you don’t know Arabic my friend, you can not introduce yourself as a specialist in Islam and go writing books about it.

    And my answer to your question is No. I never went to a Madrassa. I started learning about Islam when i was mature enough to do that.

    And regarding Muhammad Khan, I never heard him say he was a scholar in Islam. All he wanted to do was to expose the shameful lies of Dr Caner. He invested some time in doing that and he really did a great job. He’s only 22 years old and me, him and everyone else in this life still have a lot to learn from. Didn’t Allah told us in the Qur’an : “You are not given aught of knowledge but a little”.

    • Hussein

      Thank you for answering my question. It seems like the Caner Brothers are a step ahead of you in regards to being brought up as devout Muslims because they attended madrassa and you did not :-) I support them because they are my fellow Christians of Muslim background. I have not defended anything they have said that borders on a lie.

      You seem to have missed my point, brother. I have never called myself an Islamic scholar or expert. I am a former Muslim and my speech is about how Jesus Christ saved me. I also write about Islam from what I know from growing up as a Muslim using the Qur’an and the Hadith as reference. My autobiography, Cracks in the Crescent, is my story and I discuss Islam throughout my life experience. I bet you are very unhappy with me because your arguments along with Safi Kaskas’s fizzled on Carl’s blog.

      Mr. Khan should stop calling Dr. Caner a “fake ex-Muslim” based on discrepancies he found in his speeches because he has made major blunders himself while trying to “expose” him.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    I agree with Matt on the fact that Islamic instruction is not something necessarily done in a Madrassa, that you shouldn’t follow people blindly and that you should stop building your ideas based on guesses and misdirections.

    As for my invitation to talk to you on the phone, it wasn’t to know your ideas but to prove that you don’t know Arabic, and thus you should stop teaching people what you don’t even understand.

    • Hussein

      Zayd, the issue at hand is whether the Caner Brothers were Muslims. They have been labeled as “fake ex-Muslims” by Muslims and some Christians jumped on that bandwagon dubbing them as “fake ex-devout Muslims.” One Christian went to the extent of acquiring public records on their parents’ divorce which debunked Muslims and Christians’ allegations. End of the story.
      I read and write Arabic very well and understand what I read in the Qur’an. Your efforts to dismiss me as someone who never went to madrassa, learning about Islam from some websites are fruitless. Let us respect each other, Zayd. If you do not mind me asking, did you attend madrassa? Mr. Khan doesn’t seem to have attended because he can barely read Arabic. He said that in one of the interviews. In fact, he is learning about Islam during this process of “exposing” Dr. Ergun Caner. My next article will show you :-)

  • Zayd Benaboud

    I agree with Matt and I appreciate his objectivity.
    Hussein knows very well that for example any normal Muslim would NEVER confuse the Shahadah with the Fatihah. However, he’s desperatly defending Dr Caner in every blog on the net, for a one clear reason : They both decided to build their fame on a false story of having been devout and knowledgeable Muslims, having been persecuted by their families, etc, etc. Now that Dr Caner’s lies have been clearly and widely “unveiled” to everyone, Hussein has got nothing but more discreditation.
    Comparing Dr Caner to Hussein, I should say that this latter had at least made deep readings of biased orientalisme books and agaisnt-Islam websites, while Dr Caner has really no idea about what he’s talking about. One of the proofs that all Hussein has learned about Islam was from biased sources is his “supposed” complete ignorance of the Arabic language. And he knows that the Qur’an has been revealed in a miraclous Arabic style that no translation can convey. Thus, any person who has EVER wanted to specialize in Islam, started first with learning Arabic.
    Now Hussein, please correct me if I’m wrong and let’s see if you are able to allow me to call you (to the phone number you announced) and record our talk.

    • Hussein

      Are you agreeing with Matt based on facts or because he totally misunderstood the article like you want people to? As for you having a recording of me, there are many audios of my testimony online. Go ahead and look for discrepancies. We can also talk on the phone. Have me recite some verses from the Qur’an. What would that do for you? The article answers your question about what age a Muslim becomes devout. If you dismiss it, you are dismissing, Muhammad, the Apostle of Allah. You know how far that takes you in Islam, unless you submit to Jesus.

  • Matt Pritchett

    There are many problems with the “logical” points made in this article.

    1) Being mandated by the court to continue instruction in Islam is not a mandate to continue into madrassa. Indeed, such instruction could have been taught at home. It’s not proof of anything besides legal precedent for more instruction. It does not mean it actually took place, or how it actually took place.

    2) You use the bolded text of “the children to be raised in the Islamic faith by their mother” to prove that their mother was a Muslim. You reference this being motioned by the “plaintiff.” However, if you look at the documents at . You will find that this was actually brought up by the appellant, who on page one, is found to be Ergun’s father. So this seems to indicate exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

    Don’t get me wrong, I believe that Dr. Caner lied. I’m a Liberty Student, but one who does not follow our “leadership” blindly. But if you are going to attack or question someone, you must do it logically and based on actual facts, not guesses and misdirections

    • Hussein

      1) You speculated, “Indeed, such instruction could have been taught at home.” An eyewitness corroborates the Caner Brother’s account and the court document that they went to the mosque where they were taught Islam.
      2) The article clearly states that Mr. Caner, (Dr. Caner’s father who was also the plaintiff) asked the court to have the defendant (Dr. Caner’s mother), to raise the children as Muslims. Once again, you did not get the point of the article. If Dr. Caner’s mother wasn’t a Muslim, how could Mr. Caner ask the court to have her raise the boys as Muslims? Thanks to your speculation again. This time it debunks your first point because, if their mother weren’t a Muslim, the only place the children could have received religious instruction would have been an Islamic school.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Dear Monnie,
    We Muslims do not even care when someone who was considered a Muslim leaves our religion, for the simple reason that we are convinced that he wouldn’t have done so if he really knew about Islam. We would even get to accept that someone would stop beleiving in the existence of God, but would never understand why someone would start beleiving in a three parts God based on a human made book instead of the ONE true logical GOD based on His own Words.
    Regarding Dr Caner, we Muslims think that he has no right to lie about his background to credit himself and misguide millions of people. His lies have finally been shown to people by Muslims and by objective and honest non Muslims. Please watch this video and judge for yourself :
    You think that Islam is hated everywhere in the world and that it has no chances to be accepted. I’m sorry to inform you that Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe in spite of the Media war on Islam. Please have a look at this article with quotes from credible American sources including the New York Times, The Department of Defense of the USA, etc.:
    And to see yourself the difference between the thousands and thousands of converts to Islam and the very few ones to Christianity, please Youtube it. Among converts to Islam, you will find doctors, scholars and very smart College students, never very young age converts like Rifqa Bary, Dr Caner or the author of this blog.
    As for your question concerning Muslims’s contributions to the world, please browse this website and learn about some 1001 Muslims’ inventions that have contributed to our lives : And then please let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

  • Monnie

    I am not sure why all this fuss about Caner?. Whether he was a devout Muslim or not, Muslims have only one aim: to discredit ex-Muslims by hook or by crook. They know that Islam is no match for true Christianity or even Christian religion. To achieve their goal of of getting world prominence they think they have to discredit Christians and Christianity. It’s a poverty mentality or a poor man’s mentality that to discredit someone of higher position. Someone with stuff and dignity need not do this as he is confident of the self with the recognistion he has received from around. Islam lack any recognition from the world.It has received only curse from everywhere except from those few who they have bought to praise them in public. But as Islam tries to diescredit Christianity they become more more a laughing stock among the public and day by day they are losing credibility even among those who considered Islam as something noble. Go to any part of the world and test what I have just said. Hatred towrads Islam is increasing not just in America or Europe but in Asia and Africa and elswhere. An open minded person can easily verify this. Islam is something not defendable intellectually and their actions nullify their sweet words and elevated selfimage. Just look at the debates on Youtube and how naive and stupid the arguements of their learned men are.
    Islam has contributed nothing in terms of even physical benefits-such as modern science,technology ,medicine…-which benefit the world at large. Mulsims use and enjoy the West’s contributions and still not willing to admit their unfortunate plight. To see the proof,go to Aabian countries and see what are the contributions they use from their own culture and from the West. If anyone is knowldegble enough and have facts give me the list and argue. Muslims, don’t try to fool yourself.Have courage to face facts. If you don’t face facts corageously you will be the losers in the end.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Now, let me please answer your comments Hussein,
    You said : “Allah himself said Muslims can lie.” I would quote an answer from the Qur’an : “Glory to thy Lord, the Lord of Honour and Power! (He is free) from what they ascribe (to Him)!” (37:180). Here is the English translation of the verse you quoted : “Let not the believers Take for protectors or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.”. And for your information, this is what the Qur’an says regarding lying: “Truly Allah Guides not one who transgresses and lies.” (40:28). In the Hadith, Muhammad (sws) was quoted as saying, “Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell.”. May GOD Protect you and me from lies and lying Hussein. Ameen.
    You said : “The fact that you can pick out a few instances, out of hundreds of speeches, and justify them as his inability to articulate even the basic teachings of Islam is beyond me.”. That’s not the case. I said that EVERY time he speaks about Islam, he prooves that he’s talking about something else.
    You said : “I bet I can catch some of your errors in observing Salat if I were to tape you performing it. Whether Muslim or Christian we are all imperfect.”. I agree with you that all human beeings are incorrect, but I guarantee you that you can never catch me making a single mistake reciting the “fatihah” which I do AT LEAST 17 times a day. It’s like if you would ask me about my name and I would say Bill Clinton ;-)
    The simple fact that Dr Caner is not able say the “shahada” calify him not only of a fake ex devout Muslim but of a false bad Muslim.

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Dear Mark,
    Watching ANY video of Dr. Caner talking about Islam leads to the same conclusion : This man does really not know anything about what he’s talking about.
    AlhamduliLlah, Thanks God all Dr Caner’s talks were recorded and are available on the net. Otherwise, we would have been accused of beeing not able to accept critics, of trying to discredit a honest man who found the truth in Jesus, etc. etc. AlhamduliLlah.
    My own conclusion from this entire story is that Islam AlhamduliLlah is such a strong religion that everyone nowadays that wants to attack it claims to be a former Muslim to credit himself. Let me please tell you that if you really want to discuss Islam, all you have to do is to learn about it.
    Every year, hundreds of thousands of Americans and Europeans embrace Islam. I’m not talking here about 12 and 14 years children attracted by Western civilisation or brainwached by desperate priests. I’m talking about doctors, scholars and very smart University students. Please have a look at this video and let me know whether this guy was a true or a false Christian. This is just an example :

  • Mark

    There is a comment from 2004 about the Caner brother that may be about the videos that Salman is referencing. The videos links are a few comments above this comment which is quoted below. It looks like someone made some of the same observations that others are making today.

    I just had a look at the videos, and it’s obvious that despite their PhDs, these two men have not experienced Islam as it exists in its local context. Yes they grew up in a Muslim household but they don’t have true grasp of how Muslims think, or how life functions in the Muslim world.

    In the second video, at around the 10th minute, Ergun Caner recites the ‘shahada’, or ‘confession of faith’ as: “bismillah ar rahman irraheem, muhammad allah ar rahman irraheem”. The translation shows up on the screen to be: “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah”. However, this translation is hugely incorrect. In fact, Caner did not recite the shahada at all, but put together something which doesn’t really make any sense. The first part of the phrase he read means “In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful”. The second part is not even a complete sentence, but might be translated as “Mohammed — … Allah, the compassionate the merciful”.

    Considering that they claim to have grown up in a very devout Muslim family, and that they claim to be knowledgable about Islam, it is highly surprising that they can not recite the single most important statement in Islamic doctrine.In any case, the fact that these two former Muslims have become respectful Christians should be enough for us to stop bombing muslims. Instead, we should be sending out missions to preach to Muslims, so that they might follow suit. The love of Jesus is stronger than American bombs.

  • Salman

    Brother Hussein,
    I have now seen and listened to countless of Ergun’s speeches, and each one convinces me more that he does not know what he is talking about. In the last one I was just listening to he claimed that someone who goes to fight in a jihad is called a ‘jahideen”, and then if that person then goes on to perform the Hajj then he becomes a “mujahideen”!!!! hahahah!

    I don’t know whether to laugh, or if I should be crying for all the people who are listening and believe every word he says!

    It is absolutely shameful, because these can not be mistakes and can only be lies unfortunately!

    The video that I watched when it was posted on jihad watch was the interview of the Caner brothers by John Ankerburg. You can watch it on you tube easily by searching for it. It’s a real comedy show for anyone who knows anything about Islam!!

    My advice to you: Tell Caner to stop embarrassing Christians!

  • Zayd Benaboud

    Dr Caner is not and WAS NEVER a devout Muslim for many simple reasons that I have no time to mention all of them now :
    - He lies A LOT. He got so confused with his lies that he even got to lie about where he was born. A devout Muslim can not lie. It’s a basic thing in our religion. Prophet Muhammad (sws) said that a Mu’min can do a lot of sins, but can not lie. You know that Hussein.
    - He doesn’t know even the names of the five famous pillars of Islam, that EVERY normal Muslim MUST know and understand to be a Muslim.
    - He is not able to recite the first ONE sentence of the introductory chapter of the Qur’an that EVERY normal Muslim is expected to recite AT LEAST 17 times a DAY. Now that you’re saying that he was educated at a Madrassa, you really have no idea of what you’re talking about.
    When I was watching his videos, It happened to me the same that happened to Salman. I couldn’t stop laughing.
    Diana, Hughin and Mlynn. To understand what really Islam is about and get able to criticize it, READ the Qur’an. It is available everywher online in all languages.

    • Hussein

      Zayd, you said:

      A devout Muslim can not lie. It’s a basic thing in our religion. Prophet Muhammad (sws) said that a Mu’min can do a lot of sins, but can not lie. You know that Hussein.

      Are you sure? Al-Imran, Surah 3, verse 28,
      لاَّ يَتَّخِذِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ ٱلْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذٰلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلاَّ أَن تَتَّقُواْ مِنْهُمْ تُقَـٰةً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ ٱللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَىٰ ٱللَّهِ ٱلْمَصِيرُ
      Allah himself said Muslims can lie. Here is the Tafsir, “(Let not the believers take) the believers ought not to take [the hypocrites:] ‘Abdullah Ibn Ubayy and his companions [and] (disbelievers) the Jews (for their friends) so as to become mighty and honourable (in preference to believers) who are sincere. (Whoso doeth that) seeking might and honour [by taking the hypocrites and disbelievers as friends] (hath no connection with Allah) has no honour, mercy or protection from Allah (unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them) save yourselves from them, (taking (as it were) security) saving yourselves from them by speaking in a friendly way towards them with, while your hearts dislikes this. (Allah bideth you beware (only) of Himself) regarding the shunning of unlawful killing, unlawful sex, unlawful property, consuming intoxicants, false testimony and associating partners with Allah. (Unto Allah is the journeying) the return after death.”

      Now that you’re saying that he was educated at a Madrassa, you really have no idea of what you’re talking about.

      Court documents do not lie. After all, Dr. Caner did not avail them to the public but someone investigating his past did. I have links to it in the article. The evidence is indisputable that he was educated in madrassa. The fact that you can pick out a few instances, out of hundreds of speeches, and justify them as his inability to articulate even the basic teachings of Islam is beyond me. Be objective, Brother Zayd. I bet I can catch some of your errors in observing Salat if I were to tape you performing it. Whether Muslim or Christian we are all imperfect.

  • Salman

    Hussein, you miss the point.

    The most obvious evidence that shows that Caner was not a devout Muslim is that he does not KNOW even the basics of Islam. We don’t even need to bother about the discrepancies in his background.

    I am a secular Muslim and I first heard the Caner brothers in around 2004. Someone posted a link on jihadwatch to a video of an interview of the brothers. I watched and I was laughing out loud because of the mistakes they were repeatedly making. Basic simple mistakes that no one who has spent any time practicing the religion could possibly make.

    As a Muslim myself it was perfectly obvious that these brothers were in no way capable of being authorities in Islam. I didn’t even need to find out about their background, I knew they were not what they were claiming to be.

    After watching that video I assumed that they would be ridiculed and washed away due to their utter lack of basic knowledge about Islam. So I was surprised to find out a few weeks ago that they had managed to become presidents of seminaries and were still claiming to be authorities on Islam!!

    Here is the issue: Caner may or may not have been a devout Muslim in the past. I don’t know and I don’t care. The real issue is that AT PRESENT, Caner is still speaking about Islam without having any basic knowledge. Seriously, you could take a college student who has completed an Intro to Islam class and I bet they would be better equipped to speak on the religion than Caner.

    Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against Christians, or against Christians who want to preach. I have a deep respect for the apologists who are able to debate Islam from a position of knowledge. Because I will be the first to tell you that there are many issues in Islam that can be criticized. However Caner unfortunately is just misleading people and is an embarrassment to Christian apologists!

    And I am also not against ex-Muslims either. I am a big fan of people like Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasrin, because they know what they are talking about when they speak. But Caner s just trying to be something he is not and is pulling the wool over the eyes of so many other Christians!

    • Hussein

      Thanks for your comment, Salman! You said,

      Here is the issue: Caner may or may not have been a devout Muslim in the past. I don’t know and I don’t care. The real issue is that AT PRESENT, Caner is still speaking about Islam without having any basic knowledge. Seriously, you could take a college student who has completed an Intro to Islam class and I bet they would be better equipped to speak on the religion than Caner.

      I really appreciate your objectivity in this matter. I have neither met nor spoken to any of the brothers. How many of their speeches have you watched? I can tell from their books that they are knowledgeable of Islam hence qualified to speak on the subject. I would like to watch that video you watched on Jihad Watch. Do you by any chance have a link to it? Thank you.

  • Mlynn

    Thank you Hussein for explaining some things SO well.

  • hughin

    well said brother…..

    God Bless You

  • Diana

    Again Hussein – WELL SAID, brother!! Thank you for bringing your experience and clarity to the ridiculous accusations.