Jesus Christ and the flat Earth?

Abdul Seid writes:

The bible says in Gospel of Matthew Ch 4 V 8 “Again, the devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.” and also in Gospel of Luke Ch 4 V 5 “The devil, leading him (Jesus) up on a high mountain, showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.” Now these verses show that the Bible assumes that the earth is flat. Because even if you go to the tallest mountain on earth and supposedly you have a very good vision and can see thousands of miles yet you will not be able to see all the kingdom of the world because today we know the earth is spherical and it is impossible to to [sic] see the opposite side of the earth. The only way you will be able to see all the kingdoms of the earth is if the earth was flat. So Brother Hussien [sic] what do you think about this. i [sic] want to read what you have to say.

Thank you.

Abdul claims since Jesus Christ saw “all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor” in the Gospel, the “Bible assumes that the earth is flat.” He has been unable to debunk my assertions that fasting during Ramadhan is manmade because the rules are specific to Arabia and its environs. Had God All knowing invented this fast, He would have known these rules would not have applied in certain parts of the world Muslims now inhabit. (This same God in the Qur’an claims the sun “set in a spring of murky water” and Muhammad, his prophet, claimed when the sun sets “it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne” of Allah.)

The Qur’an gives uniform rules for fasting during Ramadhan—from dawn to dusk—totally disregarding Polar Regions. These rules are only fair for people who live in areas where length of days and nights are similar throughout the year. The Qur’an claims fasting should not be burdensome to Muslims so much so that Muslims who travel are exempt from observing it. If a mere travel is burdensome enough to warrant skipping to fast, how about Muslims in Polar Regions. It is more than a burden, for example, for a Muslim in Barrow, Alaska, to fast for a few months without breaking his or her fast because the sun does not set during certain summer months. Abdul couldn’t answer my questions. He now enlists the Bible in his attempts to make the Qur’an appear relevant.

First, Abdul needs to know that the verses in question do not implicate the Bible as claiming the earth is flat. Jesus Christ is the word, wisdom, and image of the Father and indeed was and is able to see “all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor” by the virtue of Him being a part of the Holy Trinity. The Almighty is all seeing, Jesus Christ, even while he was here on earth, was all seeing. He had two distinct natures. He was 100 percent God and 100 percent human. The fact that Abdul and his fellow Muslims object to it while relying on a doctrine that came at least 600 years after the fact does not change the fact.

Secondly, unlike in the Qur’an, Scripture interprets Scripture in the Bible. When the meaning of a verse appears obscure in the Bible, another verse or passage might make it clearer.

The two verses Abdul has quoted do not assume “that the earth is flat.” I am glad Abdul quoted Luke 4:5 which shows Jesus saw “all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.” “A moment of time” is the same as instant. Some kingdoms were thousands of miles from Jerusalem. So here, it is possible the human part of Jesus saw “all the kingdoms” in a vision. Scripture does not give explicit details as to what form Satan took to tempt Jesus.  Also, reference to the “kingdoms of the earth” does not make any indication as to the height or flatness of what they saw…it simply states what they saw.

Further, from Luke’s perspective, “all the kingdoms of the earth” could be a reference to the then-known world of trade, which is much smaller than the entire world we know today. Scripture makes other similar contextual references, as in I Samuel 6:8, saying, “And David was displeased because the LORD had broken out upon Uzzah; and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah [that is, The breach of Uzzah] to this day.” In modern time, the place is not called Perezuzzah any more, but that doesn’t undermine biblical authority.  The biblical authors wrote in context of the knowledge they had of the world.

Abdul has been trying to distract from the subject at hand, bringing up unrelated topics to the discussion about whether fasting during the month of Ramadhan is manmade. He tried three times to change the subject. Please read his comments HERE and most importantly pray for him to see the Light.

  • Seeking for guidance

    This comment is in response to Hussein’s September 8, 2011 at 2:36 pm comment.

    Yes you are right your explanation is not convincing. Not only to me but also to anyone. The one thing that is becoming clear is that you presented your self as someone who has deep knowledge about religion but when it comes to answering my question you proved the opposite. What is becoming funny now is after you failed to answer my question you are now trying to take verses of the Qur’an out of context and give them your own interpretations like you did with the verses of the Bible. Sorry buddy it doesn’t work that way. Unlike the way you presented here is what the Qur’an says about the shape of the earth http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Spherical_Earth.html

    • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

      Abdul:

      My comments are only “confusing” to you and your fellow Muslims who care less about the Truth. Remember, you started it. The Qur’an clearly states the earth is as flat “as a bed” and it also has “two easts.” Doesn’t it? Please answer. If you don’t, I will close comments to this thread. Thank you.

      • Seeking for guidance

        Hussein,
        You are taking words of the Qur’an out of context to confuse readers.. Your question about whether the Qur’an says earth is flat is answered here http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Spherical_Earth.html . The link also gives detail explanations and example how misleading it is to take words out of context like you did. As far as closing comments to the thread, you can do whatever you want. The topic of the thread was answered lucidly by its comments.

        • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

          Abdul:

          I have never seen so many quotes from Wikipedia in an scholarly article. You have provided a link, making a case the Qur’an claims the earth is spherical while the Qur’an clearly claims the earth is a flat as “a bed.” Do you have any better source? Your “Wikipedia dependent scholar” also claims, “It was in the Golden ages of the Muslims, from about 1400-1500 CE, in where 3 brothers named: Mohammed, Shakir and Hassan, they toured the surface area of the earth from a angle at the Red Sea, when people thought the world was flat. They also discovered that the heavenly bodies and celestial spheres were subject to the same physical laws as Earth.” A better Muslim to consult is Prophet Muhammad who in his own words said when the sun sets “it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne of Allah” and asks for permission to rise again. So much for your arguments.

          • Seeking for guidance

            Hussien,

            People like you believe in what is written by man. Perhaps that could be the reason why the brother uses so many quotes from Wikipedia in the link. I am afraid your ignorance has prevented you from seeing the Qur’anic quotes that are mentioned in the link.

      • Anon

        You clearly have not read classical tafsirs of the Quran to get to your wacky conclusion that the Quran says the earth is flat. Where do I start with such ignoramuses like you? Firstly, Quran does use the word flat and bed anywhere in a verse. Those who actually know classical Arabic will realize this. Secondly, the Quran describes the function of the earth as a resting place, a bed (which the Arabic word there means). Also, refer to Taqi Usmani’s tafsir on this verse for more.

        You claim “Secondly, unlike in the Qur’an, Scripture interprets Scripture in the Bible” is completely bogus. Scholars have known for centuries that the best commentary of the Quran is the Quran itself, and the Quran itself cannot be fully understood by spewing off selected translations.

        As for: “The Almighty is all seeing, Jesus Christ, even while he was here on earth, was all seeing. He had two distinct natures. He was 100 percent God and 100 percent human.”

        You have reconcilable conflicts with this claim:

        1) God and man’s attribute contradict one another, so to say that a contradiction is true results in reductio ad absurdum.

        2) If the Son had 2 natures, that means the Father also had 2 natures. If you say the Father had 1 nature (divine) but the Son had 2 (Divine and man), you affirm a contradiction on the number of natures your God had.

        As for you interpretation on Luke 4:5, why don’t you try and prove that from the Greek texts (depending on what version you quote)? Unlike you, we don’t only rely on what book to interpret things. We have the hadith too and the consensus of scholars.

        Your claim “The Qur’an gives uniform rules for fasting during Ramadhan—from dawn to dusk—totally disregarding Polar Regions” is an attempt to limit us only to the Quran. The consensus of jurists and scholars say that they should use the closest city’s time or by the timing of Mecca. Since the consensus said this and the Prophet said in a sound narration in At-Tabaraani:

        لن تجتمع أمتي على ضلالة فعليكم بالجماعة فإن يد الله على الجماعة

        “My Ummah will not be united upon misguidance, so cling to the Jama’ah, for verily the power of Allah is upon the Jama’ah,”

        that is enough to refute you on this mas’ala.

        Since you already made up your mind on what the “truth” is, it’s not surprising to see your errors.

  • Seeking for guidance

    “CIRCLE is the same as SPHERE”. “FOUR CORNERS of the earth is the same as NORTH, SOUTH, EAST & WEST” . That’s a big time joke. hahaha. Is this how they thought you in school? A circle has four corners. Do you really know how many corners a circle has? What kind of geometry class did you take? Keep trying to make sense out of nonsense.

    • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

      Abdul:
      You mockingly wrote,

      “CIRCLE is the same as SPHERE”. “FOUR CORNERS of the earth is the same as NORTH, SOUTH, EAST & WEST” . That’s a big time joke. hahaha. Is this how they thought you in school? A circle has four corners. Do you really know how many corners a circle has? What kind of geometry class did you take? Keep trying to make sense out of nonsense.

      Remember, I was just copying and pasting the whole argument where you selectively copied and pasted. Those were not my words. I was just trying to expose your tendency not to think for yourself but rely on other Muslims’ argument to raise the same questions. Even though the Christian did not have very solid argument, I agree with some of his arguments.

      Now this is nonsense, when a supposedly all-knowing God claims the sun sets in a spring of murky water. Remember, Allah Prophet Muhammad claimed to have gotten revelations from did not seem to know that much. He clearly said in the Qur’an the sun “set in a spring of murky water.” Muhammad, his prophet, went even a step farther claiming when the sun sets “it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne” of Allah. Allah in the Qur’an did not know his own creation. He gave some rules about prayer and fasting that totally depended on “his” creation, the sun, and unfortunately the sun has refused to “prostrate itself underneath” his throne in certain parts of the world and Muslims live in confusion today.

      • Seeking for guidance

        You are again making false statement about me. I didn’t copy the verses from the link you mentioned. Even if I do, the main point here is not about from where things are copied. It is about finding the truth. There is no logical argument that you can bring up to convince anyone that the Bible does not assume the earth is flat. unless of course it’s a nonsense one like the one you brought earlier. Let’s first agree on this topic then we will move forward with your question about Islam.

        • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

          Abdul, you wrote:

          You are again making false statement about me. I didn’t copy the verses from the link you mentioned.

          What a coincidence words “you” capitalized for emphasis and the order of the verses you quoted were similar to the ones on that website!
          I have never said writers in the Bible never assumed the earth was flat. They were human and they wrote what they saw how they saw it.
          The issue at hand was whether the all-knowing Allah knew his creation. Allah relied on his creation when he gave commands and his creation proves him wrong. Allah said the earth was like a bed. He also said the sun set in a spring of murky water. There are many verses from the Qur’an:
          18:47
          18:86
          18:90
          20:53
          27:61
          36:38
          36:40
          43:10
          43:38
          78:6
          79:30
          Do you have an explanation how Allah, the all-knowing, assumed the earth was flat? To the best of my knowledge, there is nowhere in the Bible where Yahweh or Jesus said anything to that effect of a “flat earth.”

          • Seeking for guidance

            Hussein,
            You wrote “I have never said writers in the Bible never assumed the earth was flat. They were human and they wrote what they saw how they saw it.”
            and further down towards the end of your comment you wrote “there is nowhere in the Bible where Yahweh or Jesus said anything to that effect of a “flat earth.”

            Nice try finding your way out. your if you can’t convince them, confuse them approach does not work here. you can’t have both yes and no at the same time to a question that needs either yes or no.

          • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

            Abdul:

            I have been simply honest with you and I am sorry because my explanation is unconvincing to you. One thing is becoming very clear. You cannot answer questions about the Qur’an and its claims about the earth being flat “like a bed” and sun setting “in a spring of murky water.” Apparently, the Qur’an cannot stand the same test and standard Muslims hold the Bible to. How ironic! Let the readers decide.

    • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

      Abdul:

      Allah said, “Until, when he comes to Us [at Judgement], he says [to his companion], ‘Oh, I wish there was between me and you the distance between the east and west – how wretched a companion.’

      By the way, it is not “the distance between the east and the west” but the distance between “two easts.” “West” is not mentioned in this verse. Muslim scholars attempted at covering up for Allah.
      Now, since you were mocking the “four corners” of the earth mentioned in the Bible, would please explain if it is possible for the earth to have “two easts?”
      Secondly, if there were any “west” that existed in this verse as Muslim scholars would like the world to believe, would you please explain how to measure the distance between those two points? Only a flat earth would have a distance between east and west. Allah of the Qur’an, the supposedly all-knowing, did not know the earth is spherical.

  • Seeking for guidance

    Brother Hussein,

    you said “Secondly, unlike in the Qur’an, Scripture interprets Scripture in the Bible. When the meaning of a verse appears obscure in the Bible, another verse or passage might make it clearer.” This is totally baseless. Because if you said Scripture interprets Scripture in the Bible, why are you giving your own assumptions and interpretations to the verses under discussion? You are not even sure of your own interpretations, let alone of bringing another verse to interpret them,. you are using words like “could be interpreted” ,”it is possible” etc. which clearly proves that the interpretations are yours not the Bibles.

    With that being said take a look at the word “All” and “world” in the quoted verses above and explain to me that they are referring to an area which is smaller than the world we know today. Are you saying that the bible is calling a small tiny proportion of the earth “world”? How is that makes sense to you? If the verses i quoted did not convince you that the Bible assume the earth is flat, take a look at this one “I saw a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. The tree grew, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth.” Daniel 4:10-11. Here instead of an “exceedingly high” mountain from which “all the kingdoms of the earth” can be seen, Daniel pictures a tree “whose height was great,” growing from the “midst” or center of the earth and “seen” to “the ends of all the earth.”
    All the verses i quoted are based on the same simple idea that something “exceedingly high” or of “great height” could be seen by everyone on earth at once as if the earth is flat.

    Finally, this is not unrelated topic. we were discussing about geography and the questions i asked focuses on the same subject. As far as the discussion that went on about Ramadan, any one who is not biased can take a look at the whole discussion and decide who is reasonable and whether the explanations given there are sufficient.
    Allah knows the best.

    • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

      Abdul:
      I was a little vague in my answers. My apologies.

      First, you need to know that I cannot for certain tell you the meaning behind Luke 4:5 because I do not know if Jesus Christ had a vision or if Jesus Christ, the all seeing, saw ALL the kingdoms of the world.

      Secondly, you bring up the issue of Daniel 4:10-11 in trying to argue “the Bible assume the earth is flat.” Did you read these verses in their context before writing your comment? Abdul, unlike the Qur’an, verses in the Bible have contexts. These verses in Daniel are about Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. He had a dream and in it he “saw a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. The tree grew, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth.” What is the problem here? King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream and the Bible clearly shows it was interpreted in Daniel 4:19-22:

      Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonished for a time, and his thoughts troubled him. So the king spoke, and said, “Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its interpretation trouble you.”
      Belteshazzar answered and said, “My lord, may the dream concern those who hate you, and its interpretation concern your enemies!
      “The tree that you saw, which grew and became strong, whose height reached to the heavens and which could be seen by all the earth, whose leaves were lovely and its fruit abundant, in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and in whose branches the birds of the heaven had their home—it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong; for your greatness has grown and reaches to the heavens, and your dominion to the end of the earth.

      Do I need to explain any farther…

      In conclusion, you always write “Allah knows the best” but the Allah Prophet Muhammad claimed to have gotten revelations from did not seem to know that much. He clearly said in the Qur’an the sun “set in a spring of murky water.” Muhammad, his prophet, went even a step farther claiming when the sun sets “it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne” of Allah. Allah in the Qur’an did not know his own creation. He gave some rules about prayer and fasting that totally depended on “his” creation, the sun, and unfortunately the sun has refused to “prostrate itself underneath” his throne in certain parts of the world and Muslims live in confusion today.

      • Seeking for guidance

        Brother Hussein,

        I really appreciate you trying to defend what you believe is right. I am sorry if any of my comments offended you. As a reminder verses in the Qur’an have detailed explanations of how they are revealed, how they should be interpreted and how they should be understood. Likewise verses in the Bible could have contexts. So it is up to us to ask ourselves if the interpretations make sense or if the contexts are logical. This is the only point that I am trying to make here.
        In a final note let us be open minded when we ask those questions and don’t favor the answer just because it is our religion.
        Peace.

        • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

          Abdul, you wrote:

          As a reminder verses in the Qur’an have detailed explanations of how they are revealed, how they should be interpreted and how they should be understood.

          What “detailed explanations?” Qur’an claims to have a clear message. The “detailed explanations” you are referring to is what some Muslim scholars, who know very well the flaws in the Qur’an, have come up with in order to mitigate the damage. Remember, Allah Prophet Muhammad claimed to have gotten revelations from did not seem to know that much. He clearly said in the Qur’an the sun “set in a spring of murky water.” Muhammad, his prophet, went even a step farther claiming when the sun sets “it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne” of Allah. Allah in the Qur’an did not know his own creation. He gave some rules about prayer and fasting that totally depended on “his” creation, the sun, and unfortunately the sun has refused to “prostrate itself underneath” his throne in certain parts of the world and Muslims live in confusion today.

          • Seeking for guidance

            Hussein,
            Your comments show that you have no interest to know the truth. You just want to go in an infinite loop of circle talking negative about Qur’an with no evidence to back your opinions. If you really were keen to know the truth, you would have investigated the errors that are present in the bible as pointed out in this discussion. Therefore there is no point for me to waste my time anymore giving you explanation after explanation.
            Once again due to the hand of man having dealt in to the bible now the bible contains many errors. one of which is its contradiction to modern science. As mentioned earlier the Bible says the earth is flat, has pillars, has foundation, has edges, has four corners, has an end and is sitting still (fixed). The proofs are as follows:

            Isaiah 11:12
            12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

            Revelation 7:1
            1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

            Job 38:13
            13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

            Jeremiah 16:19
            19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

            Daniel 4:11
            11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

            Matthew 4:8
            8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD, and the glory of them; (KJV)

            “He set the earth on its FOUNDATIONS; it can never be MOVED. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)”

            “The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is FIRMLY ESTABLISHED; it cannot be MOVED. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)”

            “Say among the nations, “The LORD reigns.” The world is FIRMLY ESTABLISHED, it cannot be MOVED; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)”

            “He shakes the earth from its place and makes its PILLARS tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)”

            “Where were you when I laid the earth’s FOUNDATION? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)”

            “that it might take the earth by the EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)”

            “He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ENDS OF THE EARTH. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)”

            “for he views the ENDS OF THE EARTH and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)”

            “Their measure is LONGER than the EARTH and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 1

          • http://www.cracksinthecrescent.com Hussein

            Abdul,

            Nice job copying and pasting from other websites. You selectively copied these Bible verses from HERE. Here is the whole context. Since this Christian answers the “question” you have raised, I am copying the entire thread. I know how some Muslims have tendencies to repeat same questions to different Christians. You are definitely one of them, unless of course you are the Osama in this thread:

            Sajita: Bible does not claim about flat earth as you said. Bible says 3 times that earth is round. Read this:
            Job 22:14 Thick clouds cover Him, so that He cannot see, And He walks above the circle of heaven.’
            Prov 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
            Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

            Circle is also translated as sphere in Hebrew.

            Osama: In http://www.aol40.com/earth_flat.htm, I showed you verses from your bible that clearly and directly and unquestionably claim that the Earth is flat! The verses that you presented don’t prove anything, and your desperate interpretations only show how weak your argument is.

            Sajita: Let me bring your article here and reply:

            Osama: The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.

            Sajita: What a childish argument? Ask your well educated scientist they will tell you that there are FOUR CORNERS of the earth! Did you ever hear about NORTH, SOUTH, EAST & WEST? It seems you never heard of it? Why scientist call 4 corners, arn’t they educated, aren’t they know that earth is round? If you think that there is no end of earth then why scientist say, ends of the earth? In Hindi we call it “Dunia ke KONE-KONE tak” “means ends(corners) of the earth” if you translate Kone-kone the literal meaning is CORNERS to Corners.

            Osama: Isaiah 11:12
            12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

            Revelation 7:1
            1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

            Sajita: That’s right! This is a speaking language and still in use! Ask any 1st grader and he will tell you that these are FOUR CORNERS of the earth.

            Osama: Job 38:13
            13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

            Jeremiah 16:19
            19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

            Daniel 4:11
            11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

            Sajita: I replied this already so I am skipping this part!

            Osama: Matthew 4:8
            8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

            Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

            Sajita: Great! Did you ever hear about VISIONS? I hope not! It is not necessary that it might have shown literally but it may be shown in visions.. It does not make earth flat?

            Osama: The Earth is flat and never moves?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?!

            The following verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

            “He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)”

            Sajita: Again it does not say that earth does not rotate or something like that but the foundation of earth was put by God and only it can be move form its place if God wants.

            Osama: “The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)”

            Sajita: Again the same argument! Today also we use the same words, “sun set” and “sun rise” WHY? Why not scientist say “EARTH SETS” and “EARTH RISES”?

            Osama: Well, I don’t think there is any need for much explanation to the nonsense above! It is crystal clear that the Bible is full of man-made corruptions and alterations.

            Sajita: Just because you are unable to understand the things of Bible then it became man-made? You believe on your scientist whose word change every day and every moment. First they say, earth rotates then they say no sun rotates.. you believe on them but how sad that you do not have eyes to see the UNCHANGING words of God that stands forever and forever.

            Osama: Since when the Earth is flat and can never move?! We all know that the Earth and the other planets rotate and move in space around the Sun.

            Since when the Sun hurries back to where it rises, like if there is some hole it rises from and another hole it sets through on Earth?!

            Sajita: Do you think Allah everyday rises sun from hole? Where the sun going after sunset?
            Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:258 Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: “My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death.” He said: “I give life and death”. Said Abraham: “But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West.” Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

            Luqman 31:29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?

            What does it mean when Allah merging day in night? and this verse also says as earth and sun is only running for a term appointed becasue sun goes down and not visible.. it does not run now but sleeping?

            Osama: For those Jews and Christians who would like to see where in the Noble Quran does Allah Almighty say that the planets in space rotate and move, read the following Noble Verse:

            “It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)”

            Sajita: Try to read this verse:
            Sad, (the Letter) Sad ( S ) 38:32 And he said, “Truly do I love the love of good, with a view to the glory of my Lord,”- until (the sun) was hidden in the veil (of night):

            Does not it clearly say that Allah does not know where sun is going at night?

            Osama: Does Isaiah 40:22 say that Earth is Round?

            It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat: “ends of all the earth”, Jesus seeing all the Earth’s kingdoms from the top of a mountain, and earth having “four corners”, to earth’s foundations are set and earth can never be moved, and the sun hurries to set from it rises all clearly state that the Earth is flat.

            Sajita: Where does this verse say that the earth is flat? This verse very clearly says that earth is ROUND SHAPED, read this:Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

            Circle also means sphere in Hebrew!

            Osama: Before I answer Isaiah 40:22, it is important to the Jewish and Christian reader to know that we Muslims don’t believe that the entire Bible is corrupt. We believe that most of it had been either corrupted or lost. But today’s Bible does have some truth in it.

            Sajita: Why you believe that Bible is corrupted while Quran confirms that Bible is not corrupt. Bible was not corrupt until the day of Mohammed.. When did it corrupt?

            Osama: Please visit What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe in?

            By the way, I am not suggesting that Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth is round, as I will prove shortly that the Verse is ambiguous and not clear. But I just wanted to shed some light upon my Jewish and Christian readers as to where the Muslims stand regarding the Bible.

            Sajita: Do you know that there are two more verses which clearly says the shape of earth as ROUND?

            Osama: Let us look at what the Verse says:

            “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)”

            This verse doesn’t suggest that the Earth is round. It actually suggests that the Earth has a circle object. “the circle of the earth” is pretty much self explanatory: It is the circle that belongs to or is owned by the Earth.

            Sajita: That’s right God drew a circle to create the earth as we read in Prov 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

            Osama: Could it be the Moon that the Verse is referring to?

            Sajita: May be referring to sun, who knows!

            Osama: Could it be some Divine Circle that, like GOD Almighty and the Angels, we can’t see with our naked eye that exists right above the North Pole?

            - Where in Isaiah 40:22 do we see a claim that the Earth is round?

            The Verse is obviously ambiguous and not clear if we wish to prove from it that the Earth is round. If we look at what the entire Bible says (as presented above by all the Verses) about the shape of the Earth as the Roman Catholic Church did, then we would reach the same conclusion they reached, and that is: The Earth is Flat!

            Sajita: You want to prove that earth is flat so yea try hard, may be one day scientist may come up with your theory that yes, earth is flat!

            Osama: Certainly, when Christopher Columbus thought that he could reach India by going west in the Atlantic ocean instead of east as it was traditionally done, the Church in Europe was afraid that he will eventually reach the “end of the earth” as the Bible clearly says that the Earth has ends in Job 38:13 and other verses as shown above, and fall off into the space and die.

            Sajita: Yes, there are ends of earth and corners of earth. If you do not know this then try to learn the speaking language where it is commonly used terms.